I had a spontaneous Skype conversation tonight with a friend. She talked to me about how she is now dating a CPC man. (Don’t feel bad if you don’t know what that means. I didn’t. Conservative Pentecostal Christian.)
Please understand. This is shocking! Not that CPCs exist or even that they date; but that this particular woman would be dating one. He’s nearly antithetical to her belief system and way of being.
Anyway, here’s a snippet of our conversation:
My friend: …his guilt kicked in and we dated chastely for a month. That was ok.
My friend: i’m confused by how that happens, though. Maybe you can educate me. How do chaste Christian couples grow and bond without having sex? I realize that sounds very uneducated. I just can’t wrap my head around it.
Me: i don’t think chaste Christian couples DO grow and bond without having sex. I assume you mean unmarried ones, yes? It’s just massive amounts of titillation that feels like forever and then a great big fat setup for disappointment after the fact. (OK. I’m sure there are lovely exceptions to this. My bias.) The woman doesn’t know any better and so settles in, figuring that this is her wifely duty and her fate. The man doesn’t know any better either so he just keeps doing what he’s always done – thinking mostly of himself and stepping into his ultimate role as head of the household. (I’m not attempting to get into a theological discussion here. I know what I’m saying. I know it’s controversial. Maybe another post for another time.) And the whole damn thing is doomed! Only no one will ever admit it. They’ll stay locked in silence forever. Potentially. It’s horrible. Unless…
Me: one day the woman begins to realize that he’s not all that; that she’s not seen, heard, or understood for who she is. She starts asking for something more. He looks at her like she’s speaking a foreign language. But for perhaps the first time in her life she realizes that, in fact, she’s actually telling the truth…And once she’s got a taste of that, there’s no going back. (I have no personal experience in this realm…)
My friend: umm yes this has the ring of authenticity!
Me: uh huh. And eventually she leaves. He stands there shaking his head.
Me: the woman goes on with her life. She realizes that she’s better off, healthier, stronger, more beautiful, and sexier than she could have ever imagined. In fact, she recognizes the scent of oranges increasingly in her midst. She realizes that men are actually attracted to her; that they almost smell her passion, her goddessness. And those men, like silent film stars, then begin to act in ways they might have never before imagined; in ways she could have never imagined either. And all the while she remains balanced between a constant state of being stunned and simultaneously realizing that SHE’s all that! (I have no personal experience in this realm either…)
My friend: honey, this needs to be cut and pasted into a blog post.
My friend: YOU ARE ALL THAT!
While on the Skype call, I realized just how far my life has come in the past three years (literally, just days past the 3-year anniversary of my divorce). And while there is still much that I grieve (primarily for my daughters) I also realize that there has been tremendous gain.
Though it remains tough for me to acknowledge that I AM ALL THAT, I’m definitely getting better at it.
Sometimes it just takes a spontaneous Skype conversation with a friend who sees me better than I do myself; who reminds me. And once I’m reminded? Oh yeah, I’M DEFINITELY ALL THAT!
Lest you think this is egotistical or too bold, let me quickly correct you. SOOOO many women will not, cannot believe in their inherent ALL-THAT-NESS. There are way too many messages that cause us to be quiet, restrained, silent…and even chaste. I won’t apologize for any writing, speaking, or sentiment that invites me or any other women into a powerful acknowledgment of our inherent strength, beauty, and worth.
Lest you think this is a post that somehow discourages chastity or Conservative Pentecostal Christians, it has nothing to do with such.
And lest you think this is a post that says anything disparaging about my ex-husband, it is not.
This is a post that says it is OK to speak and act boldly on my own behalf. This is a post about the pure, unadulterated gift of a friend who does the same – for me. This is a post that ends with me feeling tired, and ready to climb (alone) into my kingsize bed – grateful, and deeply aware that I AM ALL THAT!
Thanks, my friend. You’ll definitely give this CPC man a run for his money and, if he’s all that, he’ll recognize quickly and enduringly that YOU’RE ALL THAT, as well!!
In case you wondered, much more conversation ensued about what it means to be in relationship with a CPC, what it means to think about sexuality and theology in the same bed with one another (to coin a phrase), and what it means to have good, intelligent, kind, grace-filled discourse about topics that actually matter.
A conversation between renegades, this friend and me. Conversation that was ALL THAT for sure!
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{ 16 comments… read them below or add one }
Well, I gotta tell ya. (ha) In my return to the ‘church’….and to be clear, it’s more been a return to God and how I live that out than a return to church….I was surprised at just how pressure there is on women to get married, and get married young. (I did as well. But I didn’t even realize at the time how much that, and the fact that all my friends were getting married, had on me.)
Now, I get these strange sort of looks like, “Wait. You never *wanted* to have children? To have a family? Huh?”
And the answer is: nope.
I look like a foreigner to them.
Then again, they look like foreigners to me. I see many who married by the ‘traditional church rules’ and they don’t seem to be great relationships, they’re each playing a role, throwing their lives into their children (a good thing) but then that means they really haven’t noticed that they have no real identity of their own or know who they are. They are their roles.
And I’m beginning to come to the conclusion that they don’t seek more, because they don’t know there is more to be had than that. (This doesn’t apply to everyone, of course. But there are quite a lot.
)
So yeah. I agree with you on how it all happens within conservative churches. I never would have found out who I was if I’d been in that marriage my entire life.
But I find it curious that so many don’t even really seem happy, although they’ll say they are repeatedly, and just….don’t even look to see that there’s something more. (Generalizations, I know. I know some great couples within the church too, but there’s usually still something ‘unconventional’ about them by church standards.)
It’s intriguing to me.
But you’re spot on.
And you’re also ALL THAT!
Love!
deb
Thanks for telling even these portions of your story, Deb. And yes, I’m with you. It’s the underlying sadness, silence, and un-seeing that breaks my heart…and drives me crazy! Always exceptions, of course (for which I’m grateful), but far too many in the former category. And…hard to leave what one has always known. I get it.
I’ve experienced this as well, coming from a conservative background and in relationship with someone from the Catholic faith who didn’t have the same hang-ups as me. But in the end, it still looked the same – my truth looked like a foreign language to him, and I realized that maybe we never saw each other at all until the end.
I have to wonder if I weren’t so rebellious when I met him, if I would’ve run the other way and avoided all the pain. It was enough for me that he wasn’t at all like anyone I’d grown up with in the conservative world. I wasn’t paying attention to how he treated me, or how I felt around him.
I was also taking cues from the roles I’d seen women play around me, because I wanted him to marry me. Imagine my insecurity and shame when he didn’t follow by the conservative rules and propose . . . I felt like I’d failed as a woman. Now, I wonder how things would’ve turned out if my mom had encouraged me to be wild, instead of shaming me for it. Now is my chance to choose a man from a place of fullness, rather than from a place of rebellion.
Great conversation! Love to hear more.
xoxo
So many wonderings, Jess. And all good. I have them myself. And now, raising daughters, I sit between wanting to encourage them to be wild…and wanting them safe. Maybe those aren’t the poles. Maybe it’s wild and irresponsible. Maybe wild safety or safe wildness is possible. Or maybe sane wildness. I don’t know. What I do know is that the lessons learned are hard ones – as do you. Thanks for being willing to share your story. It’s a familiar one, sadly; and, whenever I hear it I am reminded of how important it is to tell! Again, thank you.
Wild safety – love this idea! I do realize that it has to be so much harder to navigate this line as a mother with daughters (I’m not). I do see how my mom must’ve been afraid for me with the choices I was making. And, I was in uncharted territory for her.
Thank you for having a space for these stories to be told. I wish you luck with your daughters and their own safe wildness. Or, wild feminine. ;-} (I’m stealing that phrase from my favorite book.)
xoxo
Thanks, Jess. ‘Appreciate your words, your support, your understanding, and your hope on my/my daughters’ behalf. Yes: the wild feminine. Love that!!!
So true the damage that is done by the imposition of unrealistic expectations. Hard to go from a good girl to a great lover (of yourself or someone else) in one fell swoop. But the flip side of the coin is the anything goes mentality that leaves our kids with the picture of sex as just some other feel-good for a minute adventure. How do we hit the sweet spot in the middle with them – with our daughters especially – teaching them to honor their all-that-ness and the sacredness of sexuality – in a culture that is so polarized to excess or abstinence? How much of our own stories do we share, and when? How do we navigate this terrain filled with danger – physical, psychological and spiritual? How do we spare them these hard lessons we’ve learned – or can we?
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Oooooh. I wish I had answers to this, Renae. As a mother of two daughters (as I said to Jess) this is a fence I sit on. I don’t want to perpetuate harmful myths or stereotypes, nor do I want to cast them to the wolves unprepared, unprotected, unaware. How to honor their strength and passion while simultaneously giving them the strength and passion to set good boundaries? My daily task…frankly, for myself as well! We’re in it together, these girls and me. All of us as women, I think.
YES! This is exactly where I was, and in some ways, still am, albeit more experienced. But for me it’s been difficult to reconcile sex and marriage. As in, must you withhold sex in order to be valuable enough to land a ring? What about being aware that bonding includes sex, as mentioned in this post? What about making sure the person you want to marry is sexually compatible with you?
Oh, the questions. But yes, I am quite intimate with the sexual bravado that has nothing to do with sexual awareness. In my experience, the next step after good girl was that sexual bravado stage of false confidence and little awareness of desire. I think befriending my body, and working through my hesitance to explore my sexuality solo, helped me the most in appreciating my ability to say No to sex I didn’t want, and to claim my body & desire as my own. It’s so difficult to get to that point when you’re self-conscious, and I know that’s a widespread issue as well. But you know, I think it’s so much easier for girls to ‘please a man’ when they know what turns them on and they’re comfortable with it . . . In my experience, I would rather turn the attention on the man, because it distracted him from my own lack of interest or knowledge.
Mmmm. Lots of good stuff in here, Jess. And lots of stuff that we’re afraid to name/say out loud – not to mention do anything about. I’m honored you’d state it here…and feel like it’s just the tip of the iceberg where most of us are concerned. So much unspoken. So much unexplored. So much unknown. So much anxiety, fear, and insecurity. Thank you.
I’m squirming in my seat as I read this over breakfast…I’m squirming about the fact that it’s possible that I could end up dating a CPC…if your friend did, then so could I! How, how, how I ask!!!!!!!! )
I smiled as I read your comment, Tracey. And just as I could have never imagined that I’d leave the church, I’m just as surprised when others step into its realms, its doctrine and, frankly, it’s beauty and power. Nothing is good or bad, black or white. Everything has shades of gray, ambivalence, and ongoing levels of confusion. That’s what makes the conversation(s) so interesting, worthwhile, and potentially life-changing. SO grateful you’ve said what you did…and stepped into this conversation – even if primarily with yourself! All good…
*weeping as I read this post* Ronna, you spoke to my Soul and FOR my Soul. In these words, you are my Voice, a Voice which is so often dismissed. Thank you.
Love,
Trenda
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Don’t even know what to say, Trenda, other than I’m humbled, deeply grateful, and glad. Thanks for saying so…
To come into your ALL-THAT-NESS so soon after a divorce is wonderful. I think it may have been close to ten years post end of my marriage that I realized a lot of what you are saying.
We all have that strength, that ALL-THAT-NESS in us. We just have to find it and believe in it. It takes time based on how we grew up and what our adult lives are like but it is there waiting for us to come into it.
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It’s waiting for us…this ALL-THAT-NESS. ‘Love that, Nicki.